Some reposts about refugees (vluchtelingen) and our way of living in the EU.

Around a week ago the discussions about refugees started to heat up in the EU and in The Netherlands. In the Mediterranean people drowned and in the Netherlands we performed a lot of navel gazing  on “Bed, Bath and Bread”.

One of the best pieces on calling out the Dutch provincial closed  mindedness came from The Economist. They published an article called “Bed, Bath and Begone” and called out our own hypocrisy  in the Netherlands. Never to waste a good criticism, I posted this article on Reddit in /r/theNetherlands to get something of a discussion going. This worked out quite well and raised some good insights. Out of this discussion 2 posts stood out. One was in English calling out all the non-refugees and abusing our hospitality. The other one was in Dutch and mentioned that he didn’t understand much about the local situation.  Both articles warranted an answer from me. Also based on a discussion that Vinay Gupta had with Paul Currion on the Ikea shelter. (view via conweets)

I thought that it would be beneficial to repost both these answers on my blog in order to increase the audience (and to have a better way of finding my content back.) I’ll first show the Dutch one and then the English one. That way the posts fit in an outside-in view of how everything fits together.

BTW, this whole discussion is now snowed under due to the Nepal earthquake. If you want to donate to a local organization with boots on the ground via Bitcoin or Paypal. Look up

Post 1

Based on post by /u/cruzz903:
Ik zelf niet zoveel verstand van de situatie maar volgens wat ik gezien heb, gaat het meer om dat deze mensen moeten mee werken om terug naar hun land te gaan. En anders worden ze gewoon op straat gezet. Is dat niet hetzelfde wat australie doet? Volgens mij is dat ook wel een redelijke offerte. Natuurlijk is het idee dat er geen vluchtelingen meer verdrinken. Maar ik denk dat europa zelf wel genoeg geld heeft om wat maatregelen in plaats te zetten.

My Answer:
tl;dr Die mensen zijn hier en kunnen niet allemaal zomaar terug. Verder hebben we er in het verleden en heden in die landen een grote puinhoop van gemaakt en ze willen ook graag meedoen met alle goede dingen die we hier hebben.

Laat me proberen mijn ideeën over de achtergronden uit te leggen. Het grote probleem blijft dat die mensen niet meer terug kunnen omdat hun originele landen, ze niet meer willen hebben.

Er bestaan zat ideeën om het vreemdelingenbeleid humaner te maken. Alleen willen we daar niet aan. Want dan word de grote muur rond Fort Europa pas echt zichtbaar. Nu kunnen we het nog een beetje onder de pet houden.

De grootste leugen bij vluchtelingenbeleid blijft dat we er van uitgaan dat mensen weer terug naar huis gaan. Dus we hebben nu wereldwijd 60 miljoen mensen in kampen zitten die al 20 jaar bestaan. Zonder dat ze hun eigen bestaan kunnen opbouwen en afhankelijk blijven van de internationale vluchtelingenhulp industrie.

Dat er ook zoveel economische vluchtelingen deze kant opkomen, komt door de puinhoop die we na de kolonisatie hebben achter gelaten. Terwijl we die landen nu nog alleen economisch koloniseren. Op het moment dat ze iets van hun eigen land willen maken dan zadelen we ze op met schulden, organiseren we een coup of elimineren hun leiders. Al doet Nederland het tegenwoordig wat geniepiger. Zie bijvoorbeeld Shell in Nigeria. Tegenwoordig gebruikt de ook nog drones om de lokale ‘opstandelingen’ onder de duim te houden en ervoor te zorgen dat ze hun grondstoffen niet nationaliseren.

Dit levert Nederland een groot probleem op met de toestroom van vluchtelingen en het herbergen van deze mensen. Die mensen die nu verdrinken in de Middellandse Zee is eigenlijk nog maar het topje van de ijsberg. Als ze eenmaal hier zijn, dan zijn ze ook meteen een stuk zichtbaarder. Vandaar ook de huidige provinciale one-issue discussie. Het leid weer zo lekker af van de grote werkelijke discussie.

Hoe dit op lange termijn gaat eindigen weet ik niet. Op lange termijn is de kans groot dat we Fort Europa gaan verstevigen. En daarna de mensen die niet meer terug kunnen gaan herbergen in ‘thuislanden’ in Polen of Spanje. (Al vind ik Ter Apel daar ook al op lijken.) Of we laten ze allemaal toe en doen ons best ze te assimileren.
Op korte termijn zal de VVD toch in het stof bijten op landelijk niveau. Zoals Rita Verdonk al zei: “Afspraak is afspraak.” en de rechter heeft gesproken.

Daarentegen heeft de landelijke politiek toch al minder te zeggen als vroeger, want we gingen alles bij de gemeentes neerleggen in het kader van decentralisatie. Nu moeten gemeentes iets praktischer werken dan de regering. Ze hebben die mensen rondzwerven en die gaan niet zomaar weer weg.

Al met al is het geen makkelijke discussie en het hele BBB is maar een klein onderdeel van een groter mondiaal probleem.

Zo, dat was weer een heel verhaal.

P.S.: Peter Breedveld heeft er ook nog een stukje over geschreven van dezelfde strekking.
Hun eigen problemen

Post 2

Based on post by /u/teh_fizz
Thank you for the article. This outs things in a different perspective.

I really don’t see what the fuss is about. Syrian asylum seekers that have been rejected are rejected on a few bases:

They don’t have any proof that they are Syrian. There was an Egyptian that arrived in my batch, as well as Iraqis, and a couple were trying to pass as Syrians.

They have been finger printed and registered in another European country, so my the Dublin Regulation accord, the Netherlands has the legal right to evict these asylum seekers.

They support the Assad regime or what fought with an army or a political side.

From what I understand, it is illegal to evict an asylum seeker back to his country, or at least in the particular case of Syria. This makes things trickier for everyone. Where do they get sent? I met a few Syrians that would leave the reception centers only to come back 9 months later and apply all over again.

The Netherlands has in all intents and purposes been more than hospitable towards asylum seekers. I met some of the most amazing social workers while staying in a COA centre, and it became understandable why the Dutch are getting angry over asylum seekers wanting more. Really, stayed in rooms that were like dorm rooms. We even had a small TV in some of them. They all came with heating and warm water. The only issue was the boredom that you feel while waiting to be processed.

Now I am angry because all these asylum seekers aren’t complying with the country that welcomed and hosted them while they were getting processed. Not even a thank you.

I don’t know what the solution to this is. A lot of asylum seekers are coming from countries deemed safe by the Netherlands, but they might still have some instability.

The question becomes, what does the Netherlands do? There are people coming in needing real help. Do they just ignore all of them? Maybe the Netherlands should change its policy. Malta doesn’t give any long term residencies like the Netherlands. They only offer protection, such as bed, bath, and bread, until you can go back to your country. A lot of the asylum seekers end up leaving voluntarily because they have no hope of settling down. Maybe the Dutch should being so welcoming and just offer protection like Malta.

My anser:
Thank you for the elaborate answer.

The biggest lie within the refugee community remains that the refugee status only exists temporarily. Tell that to the 60 million people living camps for 20+ years. They’re there to stay. At the moment their lives are frozen and keep dependent on the NGO’s.

Which leads to the situation where the former colonial powers provide a bandage for the bleeding. In the form of the Red Cross and UNHCR. While they build a complete industry around it. See this discusson on twitter between Vinay Gupta and Paul Currion about this subject.

The people are not complying to the hospitality of their host country. Which is not nice, but totally understandable. We plundered their countries for centuries under colonialism and via globalization we continue to do so. If they try to build a future for themselves, we cripple their countries with debt, organize a coup or drone them. For example, 14 countries in Africa are still paying a tax to France for the ‘benefits’ of colonialism. If they try to do something about it, people get killed. So those countries remain a total basket case with a dictator on top.

Now, where does this leave The Netherlands in the current situation. In a very tight spot. The VVD was also chosen on a anti-immigrant stance and the European judge has spoken we have to provide basic care. In the short term, the mayors of the big cities will force the issue and take care of everybody. The VVD will have to bite the dust, or face new elections sooner or later. Where will this leave Europe? Worst case scenario, A Fort Europe with some ‘home lands’ in Poland and Spain for all the refugees. While all the refugees still try to come inside. Or we could give a rats ass and organize things better.

See these 2 presentations by Vinay Gupta on how our current world actually works.
One Network One World – Vinay Gupta at Observe Hack Make – OHM2013

Vinay Gupta, Change Tears and Shear Planes… how technology is splitting society, and leaving us indecisive

1 thought on “Some reposts about refugees (vluchtelingen) and our way of living in the EU.

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